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Talbot 10 - A Winter Engine Project
As we were heading home on the back of our second AA lorry of the day, I gazed thoughtfully out of the window at the
passing fields of corn wafting in the 2007 summer heat. Winter was approaching and I knew it had to be this
winter  that we would have to bite the bullet and get the engine sorted. She had been using about two litres of water each
time we stopped and there was the usual scummy froth on the radiator cap. Well she was coming up for seventy years old
so decided a bit of tlc was due.

20.11.07

Most winters we try and get something sorted, with the help of Jim Wilkinson
and Walter our fellow car club enthusiasts and friends. I had a feeling that this
was a bit bigger job though than we normally do. So it was during the never
ending break from work that is Christmas and New Year the job started.









20.11.07
It was a case of taking off bits in order now, and laying them down in an
orderly fashion. Goodness knows if I'll remember where all the bits go back
so decided to take a few photos. Surprisingly enough the only photo we really
used in the build up was a picture that showed which way round the coil went,
we needed to get the polarity correct and the photo was a godsend.

Slowly the bits came off and were laid out in order in a fairly small bit of clear garage. This wasn't
going to be so bad I thought, I had air filter off, water drained from engine by undoing the bottom
hose and letting some of it pour into a washing up bowl, most  ended up on the garage floor as usual
when draining a water system. I could see there was not a drop of anti freeze in it at all. Looking inside
the top hose connector it was very rusty, and apparent that there had been a lack of anti freeze with
it's anti rust inhibitors that are so beneficial to engines. Something we take for granted I suppose that
the engine just doesn't seem to rust inside. Dropped oil at same time. thought it best to let all that water
contaminated stuff drain away as soon as possible.

21.11.07


Next step was to take off the head nuts
and start the process of getting some
releasing fluid down the studs to free
them up. They didn't look like they were
going to come out without a struggle.

Altogether there are sixteen head bolts
and after a few hours of tapping with a
small hammer, plenty of releasing fluid
then tightening two nuts onto the bolt
a bit of forward and backward levering
with one of the whitworth ring spanners
we had got two back ones out completely.
Not bad, let's move on to the other
fourteen.  If there all like this she will be
back on the road next week.




21.11.07 to New Year 09

Well it's all a blur really from here for a bit. Many visits to the garage to tap on each stuck head bolt to release rust
from around the bolt. It was working, gently tapping on the bolt with a toffee hammer seemed to be working,
keep on pouring that releasing fluid on and tapping it's bound to free off in the end.
Try rolling some plastercine into worm like pieces and forming a nice little cup around the suck bolts, pour releasing fluid
into the cups and it goes down overnight. Must go down as it's gone in the morning. Repeat this process for a week.
Shares in WD40, Plus Gas, Shell Penetrating Fluid, and GT85 reach all time highs on the stock exchange !!!!



15.01.08
Well, have been tapping and pouring penetrating fluids of all descriptions on for an eternity now and still no
movement. Try compressed air over the bolt holes to force down the releasing fluid. Getting desperate now!
It's time to break out the big guns and drill out the head bolts.

  
After spending over fifty pounds on hardened steel drill bits most are drilled out of the head to within
half an inch of the block.  Hours of drilling and with the the onset of vibration white finger approaching most of the
bolts were drilled to within half an inch of the block. The relentless application of releasing fluids continue day and night.

Walter suggests something to fit under the front of the head to apply some upward pressure to try separate
the head from the block. We borrow a four and a half ton specialised jacking tool and put it in place under
the front lip on the head.  No movement yet.  Lifting the rear proves a bit more fruitful , small gap just big enough to
insert some small alloy wedges. Still no movement from the front end. Back to more drilling out of the studs.
Finally after getting through several more drill bits we get to within about a quarter of an inch of engine block.
More pressure from the jack on the front end, car lifts off the ground !!!! Still no joy.

Losing the will to live, decide to leave pressure on the head for a week and keep pouring releasing fluid
down bolt holes. Walter passes the time recounting a head job he carried out as an apprentice on sidevalve cars,
I thing it was a razor edge Mayflower, it was a year old and he couldn't.t get the head off.  Had to resort to removing
the pistons through the bottom of the engine then "persuading"  the head to separate with large block of wood and giant
knocking stick. This was done by getting to the head through the cylinders and tapping on the head from below.

That wouldn't be any good on the Talbot though as the pistons won't come out of the bottom of the engine
anyway. According to the handbook the cylinders are tapered and pistons have to be removed by coming
out of the top of the engine.  I go in search of large bottle of anything to drink. No luck there as had decided to give up
alcohol until the spring run. I knew that was a bad idea !

Well after even more drilling, seized fingers and aching hands there is a bit more movement in the head.
More wedges inserted and gentle insertion of a large screwdriver blade and  gentle pressure from the jack the head
finally cracks, not so much with a bang, but a whimper.
Gap gets a bit bigger at front , more releasing agent, more pressure then finally it pops off. I separate the head from
the block at last. YES !

    
22.01.08

The two photos above show the state of the block, unfortunately I had removed the water
that was filling number one cylinder. It was in a really bad state and really thought we had left
the job a bit too long as it looked a horrible mess.
Set about removing the old gasket and cleaning things up.  Surprisingly the head was in very good condition
carbon wise, the big problem here was when a straight edge was placed along it you could see light coming
through the gap which I would have said was about a sixteenth of an inch. Definitely needs skimming.
Water had been leaking into number one cylinder for quite a while . Also into the oilways.
 

This photo is of the block after a basic clean
up. The head was away being skimmed
and checked for any cracks.

With the sideplate removed the valve gear
could be seen, Walter set about setting the
tappets after cleaning the valves. They were
cleaned and reground while in place, then
soak tested, which consists of pouring
penetrating fluid around the valve seats
and seeing if any leaks through past the
valve and into the inlet / exhaust manifolds.
No leaks at all on any valve so no need to
remove the valves. Great news as replacing
the collets with engine in the car would have
been impossible I thought.

Walter spent the best part of a Saturday
wrestling with three different spanners at
once to correctly adjust the tappet clearances.
Oh all three had to be ground down or
shaped in some way to make them fit.


Juggling with the three spanners at once,  one to undo the locknut, one to turn the adjuster and the other to hold the valve I
think, but I couldn't see too well really. Goodness knows how a man can get into that position to see into the valve gear.
More fluid and cleaning and blowing out with an airline got rid of any grinding  paste left on the valve seats. I turned the engine
over to the correct spot using the starting handle. Only walked into it once though as it poked out of the front of the car.
My goodness the air was blue for a few minutes, and I learned a new dance that would not look out of place in any modern disco.

      

 

15.02.08
Walter brought the newly refurbished head back from the
engineering company where he had taken it. They had to carry
out the work as the friendly local contact could not do it as the
head was dome shaped and not flat, it would not fit on their
skimming machine.
Still I thought fifty pounds for a skimming and refurbish, check
over for cracks and a clean was quite good value really.


A straight edge revealed the head was now straight as a die,
not like a large metal banana.  A final clean and polish
of all available orifices produced a shining new head.  Wire
wheel on an electric drill got rid of all the age related crud and
the peeling silver paint on the top. A few coats of matt black
VHT (very high temperature) paint saw it looking really smart.

Fitting all the new head bolts was next. Purchased from
Bamforths in Barnsley. They do have lot's of spares for Sunbeams
and Talbots. The gasket set was also bought from there.

As the head is dome shaped, not all the head studs are the same
length, so a trial fitting then marking of the head studs took place.
I wanted the nuts when fitted to look as neat as possible, and
decided that cutting was best carried out on a bench and not
with the studs in place on the head. A couple of hours later all
studs were cut and tightened into the head. Then the head was
lowered carefully into place on top of a shiny new head gasket.
Nuts tightened down in sequence, (middle out in sequence).
Now to find out what setting to torque the head down to.


I do love reading the old manuals. The way to tighten down a cylinder head is to "screw down all the retaining nuts until they
commence to bite against the head then give each nut successively a third of a turn at a time in the order indicated in Fig 13".
Well my idea of a "bite against the head" might be different to the writer of the manual, so I had to get a torque setting to
satisfy myself. After all this I couldn't bear to give it "a nip plus a third of a turn"....... My how much simpler life was in 1938 .

To my surprise all the chaps I contacted said
the same as the manual, but two did say they
thought between 40-50ft ft lbs ft was what
they used and they had no problems. That's
what we settled on then. When they were
done we fitted the cleaned up spark plugs.
Just in case a stray nor something decided to
get lost into the combustion chambers when
we were not looking!





The gasket for the valvegear sideplate
was fitted, with a smear of red Hematite.
I took a look at the engine
and decided it looked pretty "tepid"
that's a shade nicer  than cool !






18.02.08
Just a case of fitting the dynamo mounting
bracket, distributor drive shaft and distributor,
coil and fuel pipes.

Next the water hoses and then some new
antifreeze. Some new oil, not forgetting to
refit the sump plug before doing so. No I did
remember but got to the stage of nearly
pouring in the new oil before I remembered !
Plug leads on and a final check over.

Battery connected and the moment of truth.
Fuel pump primed, a few presses on the
accelerator pedal and the choke out about
halfway. Ignition key on then  Press the
starter button and hope she fires !

Not only fires up, but on the first press of
the starter button. Sounds like a sewing
machine now, it must have been a loose
tappet and nothing worse after all !





The new stainless steel waterjacket sideplate,
also purchased from Bamforths, was next.
Red Hematite and fibre washers as some of
the drillings for the bolts went into the water
jacket and would leak if not fully watertight

The surplus sealer was all wiped away when
dry with white spirit. Same for the top hose
and distributor housings.
Finally on with the dynamo and fan belt.
The wooden device under the dynamo is
two shaped blocks of wood with a long bolt
and locknut to give correct adjustment
on the dynamo. Must look out for a slightly
shorter belt this year .....but it works well.
Thanks Jim !








23.02.08
Well the task is now nearly complete.  Just got to run around for a bit and then
change the engine oil again. Make sure all the crud is well and truly out of the engine.
Just the bonnet to fit back on an the moment, so for the time being this is the end
of our winter project.  I will post one last photo when she is all done though.




Was it worth it I ask myself ?... It certainly was.
I learned a lot, especially that I have more patience than I thought possible.

Will I volunteer to help a fellow club member change their head gasket on an old car ? .................  Not bloody likely!
I could offer advice on drilling out seized head bolts though, I am now an expert on that.

Susan & Andrew Naylor ........with a lot of help from Walter



  

Supreme Sunbeam
In August 2002 at the request of our friends Clive and Irene Farrand it was decided that we would have a trip to a northern
Classic Car dealer. We decided upon arrival to there was no way we were going to be stupid enough to buy an "old crock"

There was however a 1924 Sunbeam Open Tourer 14/40, that had been on their website for a few weeks . It stood in  the
showroom, and was the type of vintage car we had always wanted and seemed to be at an affordable price. Of course we
had just got to take a run out in it and before we knew it , agreed to buy! Our friends had also succumbed to purchasing a
1939 Daimler Saloon DB 18 Sports.

The car was delivered on September the 9th 2002; it certainly looked the part , an antique on wheels.  We were a bit
suspicious when told that all vintage cars leak oil and not to worry.
Eager to try it out we arranged a Sunday trip to the Old Original Inn, Scouthead near Oldham. Four up we set off without any tools except
a mobile phone and motored over Standege Moors on the A62.
Now a Sunbeam 14/40 is not the most powerful car and with four
up and only three gears it's 20 mph in second gear on the slightest of
gradients. After a slow but steady uneventful journey we arrived at 
our destination had our lunch and duly set off on the return leg.
The car went well, especially on the downhill sections towards Marsden.
We then made the mistake of attempting a very steep hill known as
Causway Side, Linthwaite. The car got half way up in first gear where
upon the engine started to run on three cylinders, and refused to go
any further. Somehow we got it going again and made it to the top
of the hill and back to Holmfirth. Further investigation established
that no 3 spark plug had failed , we changed it and there were four firing cylinders again.

We decided to take the car to a small garage in Slaithwaite where it was greased all round, engine oil changed, an engine oil leak
cured and a core plug renewed as the old one was ready for giving way.

We had a few further short journeys in the car but by November it was apparent the bulkhead was in a very bad state with
woodworm and the car was coming apart. We decided to take it to our local garage, Michael Hobsdon Scholes Holmfirth.
He said no problem, we will soon repair it. Duly the car was stripped and a new bulkhead fitted.
On it's return it felt much improved and was far more rigid. We put the car in the garage at home for the winter ready to enjoy
again next spring and summer. In February took it for a run just to keep everything moving charged up etc, but within ten miles
the plugs oiled up. It was back to Michael Hobson's where with a compression test it was established that it was poor, so off came
the head. Valves were lapped in , new collets fitted head then re fitted with a new head gasket.

The performance now improved considerably , however the plugs were oiling up even sooner.  This was traced to overfueling.
The Cluadel Hobson Carburettor was sent away to Classic Fuel Systems , Bradford and completely refurbished.

When we refitted it to the car, the oiling plugs problem was cured and we have never needed to fit a plug since.

June came round and it was decided that the car was running well, so a trip to Cadwell Park near Louth in Derbyshire for the
annual VSCC race meet was in order. 

The morning of June the 8th dawned cloudy with a very iffy forecast but after much deliberation it was decided to risk the journey,
bearing in mind the hood on the car is very poor. Off we went the car running very well and well suited to the flat countryside of Lincolnshire. The journey was fairly cold but very enjoyable and on nearing Cadwell Park we had the pleasure of overtaking a
vintage car, proving it was not the slowest car on the road!

We arrived in time for lunch in the Club House restaurant and then crossed the circuit to watch the racing from the little
grandstand on the other side of the track. It was a lovely sunny day now, just before the main race for single seater pre 1955
Grand Prix cars a black cloud appeared.

The race started but it was soon raining on the far side of the circuit and it was moving towards us.  The heavens then opened
with thunder and lightening to boot , we had few coats between us and were unable to find shelter. As you can not cross the
track with a race in progress we got wet! The race was eventually stopped and we went back to our car. It was still windy and
we looked at the open Sunbeam., which had let water in through the tonneau cover. The seats were wet. We wondered if it
would clear up and if we would get home, however it soon did and we set off in a dry wind with wet clothes.

We stopped at a very smart Chinese restaurant in Bawtry on the way back. The manager came out to see us on our arrival
but refused us entry until we had improved our rather bedraggled appearance. During the meal the manager tapped me on
the shoulder and asked if I knew that my car was losing oil on his rather smart tarmac entrance.  I said I was extremely sorry
but he said he was only telling me because he was concerned about my car.  After the meal we went outside, it appeared that 
a large amount of oil was coming from the rear of the gearbox. Nothing we could do but set off home, which the car completed
without further mishap.

Took the car back to Michael Hobson's where repairs were made to try and cure the oil leak so we could keep it running
throughout the summer season.

The next trip was to Harewood vintage & classic vehicle rally on June 15th, we had a good trip there and back, but upon our
return it was apparent we still had the oil leak. It was back to Hobson's garage to try and cure the leak in time for June 29th
when the car had been booked for a wedding in Saddleworth.

Knowing the car was not right we still felt obliged to fulfil our obligations regarding the wedding, so it was on a wonderful hot
day we set off up the A635 over the Isle of Skye to Greenfield. As we got to the bottom of the hill there was a knocking noise
as we accelerated away. which was guessed correctly as a tooth off the crown pinion.

The car managed to do the trip to the church and over to Denshaw making a loud banging noise. It was a superb day with
the bride and groom in the back, as we went through the villages of Dobcross and Delph folks sat outside local pubs in the hot
sunshine raised their glasses as we sailed past.

Managed to get car home again and duly back up to Hobson's garage. where the fault was correctly diagnosed as the rear axle.
The axle was stripped down and found that three teeth were missing from the pinion.

A phone call to (S T D) Spares department located a new crown wheel and pinion. Now these are not cheap and then there
only seems to be one person who could marry them together, and that was B Components of Sheffield. This process took a long
time and a new exhaust pipe was fitted and repairs were made to the brakes. It is now back on the road with hardly any oil
leaks and we are looking forward with apprehension to further trips in spring and summer. of 2004..

During a recent journey I noticed that the exhaust manifold is broken and leaking where attached to the exhaust pipe.

When the car is running well and the weather is fine its a joy to drive.
Tell me have we been unlucky or foolish, is this how all vintage cars behave?

We also own a Kougar Sport 4.2 XJ which we have had for eleven years and done many thousands of miles with very little trouble.

Sincerely
Keith and Susan Drake

Sunbeam 20.9 hp of 1930 Vintage

Alias: “Hen’s Dentures!” Some ten years ago I sublimely told an acquaintance that if the clapped out old Sunbeam he had,
came up for sale I was interested. This came to pass and I parted with serious money to acquire it, after all it only had minor
bits missing such as pistons, conrods, water pump and other minor items! The car rather than being in a stripped down condition
was better described as collapsed. I got it home by trailer and then had the problem of getting it down a very steep drive into
its resting-place and I choose my words advisedly. The wheels were on it, the handbrake appeared to work and the garage
doors were wide and with best wishes from my colleague he gave me a push off down the hill.
I being of an adventurous nature had it in mind to use the momentum of the car to get it to the
back of the garage in one deft move relying on the handbrake to stop me taking out the back
wall. I did this with great panache only to later find that the handbrake was connected to one
wheel only. I have now spent several years collecting hen’s teeth at great expense of time and
money as well as making many myself, until I now feel I could qualify as a dental mechanic for
hens. The car, which is a Weyman fabric bodied saloon, is a Sunbeam 20.9 hp of 1930 Vintage and
I may complete it sometime probably during the next year. When working with welders they used
a term "Clyde built" which to illustrate its meaning was applied to a footstool one of them built
for his wife to use in hanging out the washing. She could not lift it and Jumbo could have done his one leg-balancing act on it.
This car was Clyde built. The engine is six cylinder of some 2900 odd cc with a long stroke and has two chain drives for auxiliaries
and camshaft. These chains are not like modern roller chain but operate on wheels very much like
normal gear wheels with the internal face of the chain a shape to mesh with the gearwheels, in
fact they operate much like a modern timing belt. The drive to the auxiliaries operates at a higher
speed than half engine speed and internal gearing within the magneto produces this speed for
operation of the distributor and points which can also be switched to give coil ignition. There is no
rubber suspension of the engine, which is bolted rigidly to the chassis. There are some 50 bearings
mainly on the chassis, which are all lubricated from a central lubrication system. Braking is by a
rod and cable system with servo assistance from a solenoid with aluminium cylinder and piston.
The handbrake operates completely independently even to the extent of an additional pair of
shoes in each rear drum. In other respects the car is a "Clyde built" 1930 car, and I will not bother you with more detail.

Jim Wilkinson

 
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